Messages du forum par Icouldntthinkofaname

But I know what I want to improve, and my goals are specific. I have shared examples in this very thread. I'm not sure where the impression that I'm looking for "one magic exercise" came from; art advice isn't universal, so an exercise that works for one person might not work for another to start with.

I've had people critique and draw over my work already (including in my previous thread), but a lot of advice I get tends to be "oh, just study more" or "just think about it more"; there was one person in there with pretty solid advice, but I'm still struggling despite that. I do try everything suggested to me, and I don't just give up after trying it once. I also already take extensive notes when I study.

I'm looking to understand why I'm not improving, even while receiving critique and doing all of these things that people suggest. And I can see the results or lack thereof on the page, so I don't think it's only a matter of thinking a certain way. There's a more concrete roadblock here, and my experience doesn't seem to be very common.

• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on September 28, 2024 4:09pm.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on September 28, 2024 4:11pm.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on September 28, 2024 5:38pm.

I have tried the exercises from that book, and they didn't help! I actually ended up with worse results than when I draw normally. And yes, there is a time crunch - I'm trying to find a job.

Also, I'm really looking for more of an understanding as to why it feels like I'm going in circles and how to actually, technically improve my work, as any time I fix a bad habit I seem to develop new ones. I really am not open to the idea of journaling, and I don't think it will fix the base issue with my work. I can't just magically change this with positive thinking; that isn't to say it's bad advice or that it doesn't work for some people, but I have tried and it really hasn't helped, I just end up back where I started, similar to my actual art.

And I am working on specifics. The core of the frustration is that despite working on those specifics, my work doesn't seem to improve, and in some ways it seems to have gotten worse. I spend hours correcting, I used this website daily for months (nearly a year) on end, I study artists I like, I study fundamentals - and none of it translates to my personal work.

More experience really hasn't made art easier for me - it feels like it's become harder.

• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on September 27, 2024 5:56pm.

Well, it's that it doesn't look like what I need it to look like, and with more practice, that becomes more frustrating. People think I just give up if one thing doesn't come out right, but I can spend hours on hours trying to get it right and end up with something that doesn't look any better. Giving up at the rough sketch doesn't mean I did one vague rough sketch and then stopped.

I constantly just get told to study more, or have my methods of study interrogated, or I'm not believed. While mindset is a factor, I really need to know what the root of the lack of progress is, because I am doing everything "right" - I'm careful with my practice, and I ask for feedback. I take tons of notes. I revisit areas where I feel I'm lacking. But I always get the same feedback now as I did two years ago; "you need to study more", "it's your mindset", "have you tried Draw A Box?" "do you only draw anime?" (this one is especially offensive - my current studies are an attempt to bridge a gap between technical knowledge and stylistic choices, but all of those "anime" artists did still have to learn fundamentals). My questions get completely misinterpreted, and then people get mad at me when I say that their answers are irrelevant. I don't see a notable learning curve, but I really am doing all of these things. People think I'm jsut not focusing hard enough, or I'm not working as hard as I say I do, but I've been studying nonstop for these two years, and all of these were things I studied before.

So it's like, on top of personal frustrations, almost every attempt to get help has piled on to that. There's almost no art or mindset advice I haven't heard before, but since what I'm doing isn't working, and no one I'm close with or trust the opinions of can help, I don't really know what to do to fix this. I'm not sure that journaling will help, because it doesn't solve the root problem, if that makes sense?

Oh, all of that is digital. I like the convenience, and I practice traditionally a lot of the time because that convenience is sometimes counterproductive to study (though not always).

Motivational advice rule is mostly a deterrent- when I ask questions like this people tend to give me these vague platitudes and ignore the actual question. I don't mind it as an add-on or if it actually relates to my issue, but it often doesn't; someone on here told me to try transcendental meditation once. I think I was asking about limb proportions.

I don't enjoy it because of the stress, so a part of my goal is to conquer that stress. It's pretty deep-set, but avoiding art altogether is sometimes more stressful. I have a very concept-art-y, practical approach that's hard to explain; a lot of my work is a means to something else, like making a character reference or an avatar for a streamer. But because of this issue, that's also where I'm struggling the most. I'll sometimes draw food or props / buildings, or pixel art as a way to break things up, but I always end up needing to get back to what I was doing. But it's so frustrating that those aren't getting done; my goal isn't just improve or conquer stress, but to make things easier for myself.

I've done all of those things and have several filled sketchbooks where I only used a pen; it's my main method of practice for the exact reason you said, but I found that it didn't translate back to digital work well.

I've been studying basics nonstop and this is still the result. I studied other artists, too, and this is still the result. I completed the 250 boxes challenge and did not improve. I have tried all of those things, and I did not improve. I studied these things daily, even. Parts of the example were traced over the reference, even! I've tried every different approach I can think of, and I'm still not improving - in some ways, I am getting worse. This is almost all I've been doing for the past 2 years - "going back to basics" and doing studies. I used this website daily for a time, and there was still little-to-no improvement.

• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on September 21, 2024 6:08pm.

It's a possibility, but I can't afford to take another long hiatus right now; I really need to work on my portfolio and I want to grow my social media presence, and the longer I take breaks, the more I forget how to do certain things. I am focusing on one thing currently - faces - and getting nowhere; I've been studying faces constantly and my work seems to keep getting worse instead of improving. It's also not just a vague "I want to improve my faces", but trying to watch structure and feature placement very carefully.

Drawing without a ref isn't really my goal - even professionals use references, so I find "drawing from imagination" as a goal a little strange, admittedly. My stuff from months ago still feels like it's either better in ways I don't remember how to do, or even worse than before. I'm seeing almost no progress in my actual goals. And when I jsut focus on one thing, other things get lost.

10+ years wasn't just spent not studying, and I'd say around then was when I started taking it seriously (i've been drawing for longer than that, though), and being told to study more gets really thorny because for the past two years, that's almost all I've been doing, and I haven't improved. I end up more frustrated when I try to do something "fun" and it doesn't come out well, and then I just go back to studies, even though the studies aren't helping. And I am actually studying, not just vaguely copying references - I take extensive notes every time.

I don't mind the sharing of your experience at all, I think it takes a lot to open up like that. My issue is that I think motivational advice is often used as a substitute for actual advice; things like "stop comparing" or "just draw" don't work for me, they add more pressure.

• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on September 21, 2024 4:03pm.

@fraise :3

I already do studies like that! I've done quite a lot of them, and they haven't helped with this particular issue. I appreciate the good intent, but I can't really stop - it just doesn't work for me when I try to, though it's not inherently bad advice by any means.

I also watch Marc Brunet, but he's not what I want my art to look like. His tutorials are pretty good, but similarly haven't been much help to me on this one.

Please don't assume what I have or haven't tried. I am not new or self-taught, or some kid who is refusing to learn fundamentals to only draw anime. I am trying to lean back into an animesque style after doing various semi-realistic and more detailed styles and studies. All of this is said knowing that this advice is well-intended, but I've already done everything you've described, and this was still the result.

I spent the majority of last year doing the exact kind of studies talked about here and didn't improve - I almost exclusively worked on facial anatomy and proportions and figure / gesture drawing, and Michael Hampton is my go-to for both. I have his textbook, I watch his YouTube channel, and my current guidelines are based on his. I know the angle doesn't match the reference, and redrew it several times and was still unable to match that angle. I already "go nuts with construction lines", and this is still the result; the image isn't the only sketch or the only version of the sketch, but the product of multiple attempts.

I don't watch anyone on YouTube that has "CalArts sketchbooks" and genuinely don't see how this applies to me, other than also being an assumption. I did "abstain from said style while studying" for a while, and ended up with studies that just didn't translate to my finished or personal pieces and were ultimately not helpful for my goals. Learning to stylize and learning how to translate facial anatomy to something like this is a different skillset.

I also have several filled sketchbooks exclusively for these types of studies, and almost all of the work was done in pen. It did not help. My current goal is my portfolio, but I can't get past the frustration with faces to actually finish things. I do a little animation on the side anyway, and I usually do pixel art as my "break from routine" medium.

Basically - I do or have done everything you've suggested, and I understand the good intent, but since I've done all of those things, what's left?

• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on September 21, 2024 12:56am.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on September 21, 2024 12:57am.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on September 21, 2024 1:05am.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on September 21, 2024 1:07am.

Kind of a followup to the previous post.

If you don't want to read all of that, TLDR; I think my faces in particular are getting worse over time. These were the examples I used previously; the 1st is from 4 years ago, the 2nd and 3rd are from 2 years ago, and the 4th and 5th are from about a month ago. I feel like my structure and feature placement are extremely weak, but I've been drawing for 10+ years and practicing rigorously, including drawing more realistic faces as a means of learning.

I have additionally tried Loomis, Asaro, Draw A Box, drawing skulls, and various other practice methods to improve; none of it helped.

I tried to do a simple practice with reference today, (here is the reference) and it's still nowhere near my goal or the level of technical skill I want; it took nearly an hour, with multiple iterations. In my previous post I was advised to just finish things, but I'm too stressed out to - I can't get through a rough sketch without getting frustrated. A lot of previous studies I've done clock in at around half the time. A lot of the time it feels like I forget everything when I try to draw faces nowadays. I can very clearly tell that the angle is wrong, but I couldn't fix it after several redraws of the basic structure.

Also, please no vague motivational advice, it's not helpful! Additionally, I am not self-taught or a hobbyist.

I've tried every practice method under the sun. What do I do?

I'm glad it was helpful for you, but I think it misunderstands my problem a bit -

It's not just mindset but a pattern I've observed, even if the technical differences aren't quite as severe as they are for me. Motivational advice isn't really helpful or practical for me personally; as much as I wasn't happy about my work being redlined and don't agree with all of the observations provided, I think that person's insights are likely more the kind of help I need here. Best of luck to you both!

I genuinely don't know what this means re: doing it "fast enough", but I still appreciate it. But professionals are expected to work faster than I do currently (which isn't very fast at all), and there's some time crunch to build a portfolio and develop a bigger social media presence and network.

Want to clarify that my example was an example - it's longer-term than just adjusting it in the moment, and I sometimes only notice it later. And again, the pros are inspiration, separate from being a point of comparison.

I appreciate the intent and the compliment, but I'm not sure I totally understand what you're trying to say here. The people I mentioned are strictly inspirations, they're all long-running industry pros!

But I'm struggling to do it "easily" when it should be simple for the level of experience I have, and I've noticed similar issues in my other work - if I drew the heads too big previously, I end up drawing them too small to compensate, and that becomes a problem.

I don't do well with motivational advice like this personally, but I hope you're giving yourself the same grace; I've seen your posts around.

I am also studying those artists, but the anime warning is more because common advice tends to be "learn realism first" - which is all I've been doing. I've even done master copies! None of those things have really helped, though they are good practices. Despite my frustrations I do think the other person's insights were good, though I'm still struggling to finish pieces.

I do appreciate the advice but I'm a little confused!

• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on August 26, 2024 5:46pm.

I appreciate the in-depth response, but please don't paint over my work without permission. It's incredibly rude. You're right about the work not being finished, but I don't have access to the sketch of the older piece anymore. I see stronger features, but weaker head anatomy and structure.

The reason I "stopped early" was because I had already redrawn it several times at that point. Composition is actually one of my strong points, but I want to focus on anatomy and things like that, which is more useful for making character concepts and references.

I really do appreciate a lot of the insight, but I'm not sure what to do anymore. Thank you.

(Edit: images finally loaded. These do look good, you're right, but please ask first! I've tried the silhouette thing but have had trouble with it).

• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on August 22, 2024 6:23pm.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on August 22, 2024 6:27pm.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on August 22, 2024 6:30pm.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on August 22, 2024 6:30pm.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on August 22, 2024 6:34pm.

@Cafeaulait I appreciate that !

there's no shading or colors because they actually aren't finished, though! I feel like the structure and angles / anatomy have declined - these are actually the 'refined' sketches (there'd usually be more cleanup or a third pass, but I was frustrated; the last is actually facing a totally different direction than the rough but I'm not sure why that happened). It's also is is become harder to do things, not easier (I think this is more stress, but I can't seem to get out of that).

I'd already had years of experience with the first one, though :| I was in school studying illustration when I drew that (innocent mistake but it does bother me; I keep getting called "amateur" or "intermediate" but I've been trying to get into the industry).