Drunkenelf的论坛贴

Now I have no idea how difficult it would be to add but I think it would be a nice feature.

Everyday, I check the time tracker to remember what I did the day before. Would love a feature that would let me add a little note to the study sessions I had that day, either before or after a timed session. It could be something like...

20 Minutes

"Worked on hands, I liked the technique I used."

10 minutes

"Wasn't vibing with this session, maybe research how to draw arms?"

Blank

"Work on expressions for guys today, try for 30 minutes"

1 hr 20 min

"This session was interesting, reformat it for critique"

The big problem with my growth is that I keep bouncing around things I practice, even with the goal for the week at the very top of the time tracker. My adhd is really bad, and my memory just evaporates after a session, so anything that can help me keep track is really really helpful. It might also help me be more willing to re-examine my previous work.

Im going to try to give a small piece of advice rather than a paragraph, since Im no elk drawing expert.

I think you over shot the proportions a little bit, the head and body are just a little too thick. Next time you draw some quadrapeds, try warming up with some gestures first, using just one line for each limb, neck and spine and a circle to depict the Skull, pelvis and ribcage. Its a great way to practice basic proportions before you take your time with a longer piece. And remember that animals are hard to draw! Good luck!

I think you are right about delving into anatomy at this point, bit I gotta say, you really do gel with this method. I can tell you did your research and practice, it really looks incredible, especially considering your earlier work posed this month.

Copying a specific method is a great way to develope, it really focuses and hones your approach. I immediatly went to download The Force Method book as soon as I read this post, cause I really want to try this style.

I also appreciate the compromise you made with my insistance on a thicker brush, by making it a more charcoal style brush. I can tell you are still a bit more sketchy with your gesture, but since the line is thicker and darker, the variance is greatly reduced and your lines look so much more confident. You're also being way more careful with those detail lines.

This is one of those pieces that take me a while to critique, cause I really had to examine your work to know what my less talented art brain could reccomend adjusting, Im really super impressed. My one thing I could say would be to keep an eye on your limb and torso proportions. Also you forgot a few of your arms lol. I didn't notice right away, cause the force of you bodies is so effective, I was a little distracted.

Anatomy is a great next step! Or just basic form! Great Job!

If you really are nervous about what to say, I reccomend looking for what looks right and what looks wrong and commenting on that. I once heard that your most valuable asset for developing artwork is your ability to tell when something doesn't look right. Critiquing is what you do to develope that feeling into something you can act on.

Impostor syndrome and lack of experience really slows people down, I know it stopped me. But its fun to analyze art and Im always surprised to find out I know more than I think I do about fixing or adjusting stuff, and just haven't really thought about implenting the techniques until I point them out for someone else.

I know Im one of the people on here who replies on every post they can and I hope I've given good advice, but I gotta tell you a secret...

Its been far more effective for my own artistic growth than it has been for just yours.

Everytime I see a post on here, I see the same mistakes I make all the time, and by trying to help other people after I look at their art objectively and by trying to give easy, actionable advice, I am also teaching myself, developing an eye and giving myself advice. All the tips and tricks are also stuff I've learned from just being on the internet for so long, but never had the energy to implement, because my eye for my own work is harsh and unfair and it makes it difficult to share, and even look at after Im done. Its still something I deal with.

My lines used to be so dang sketchy, guys. But helping people on here made me adjust, learn new approachs and now the first time I draw a line feels more and more correct. I feel like I've had an artist breakthrough, like I finally crossed a threshold. I would not have arrived at this point without giving critiques.

So if you come to this website, I highly reccomend looking at someone's work and critiquing it. This is one of the few safe spaces I know where its okay to do this.

Much cleaner lines this time!

I still see some line searching scribbles on several limbs and that crouching pose just plain doesn't work. This was a clean 5 minute practice so I don't expect you to successfully implement all of the advice recieved by our critiques, but its important to look at the work you make and judge what worked, what didn't work and if you are making the necessary adjustments. (Figures did work! Enjoy the little successes you made along the way)

If you have only a short amount of time to draw, make your goal for that session be extremely specific. While "Just Draw" is the mantra that every teacher tells a student to get better, its just not great advice to act and improve upon. You are going to get that "spinning your wheels" feeling that way if thats how you do your studies.

I just saw another student do this and I thought it was brilliant. If you are drawing on paper, write on the corner exactly what you are trying to adjust, fix, implement or develope that session. For example, it could be something like "Finish the whole body before adding details!" It serves as a great visual reminder so you don't slip back to old techniques and when you look back at your work, you remember what you were trying to work on that session, so you aren't bothered by it not being as developed as your older style. I think this would be a good way to focus your short practice sessions. Just remember to keep the message short and easy to remember.

Very common problem to have! Sketchy lines are great for exploring a figure on a page, when you don't know what you want to draw or you are drawing from imagination. I know I fall back into the habit of drawing them pretty often. There are several things you can try in order to practice deliberate lines. And remember, when you practice deliberate lines, its going to feel worse before it starts to feel better. So don't be too frusterated when you drawings don't look as lively as your sketchy versions and stop and adjust if you find that your current technique isn't working.

Technique #1: Ghosting lines. Before you set you pen down on the paper, practice the motion just above the surface. Then when you feel you've found the correct line, thats when you press down and make it.

Technique #2: Use a thicker brush, preferably using black. Thin light lines hide mistakes. Plus they do what I call the "sketchiness" effect; the tiny thin lines look lively and deliberate because your eyes gravitate toward the correct ones while ignoring the lines that don't. A good technique for doodling, but you aren't practing getting the correct line with your first(ish) try. A thick brush or pen make it so mistakes are impossible to ignore. This one will make you feel like a DUNCE for first few times you try, so don't get too frusterated and try to be deliberate with your lines.

Technique #3: One I discovered quite recently on my own. Not one thats perfect for every scenario, but great for practice. Mark your start point with a little dot, mark your end point with a little dot, then draw the line connecting the two. The line should not be more complicated than a straight line, a curved line or an S shaped line. You can put down as many dots as you like before you start to connect them, I like to pop them onto several landmarks so I know the positioning is roughly correct.

As someone who has also struggled for a long time with artwork, I know what you are going through. Only this past year have I felt like I've progressed at all and the key to that has been reflecting on my studies, looking at my artwork and acknowledging the parts I did well and what parts I needed to work on. Critiquing others has helped a ton as well. Your gestures have a ton of energy, I can tell you've done them a LOT. Your observation skills are well developed, you just need to learn to refine it.

Alrighty dude. I am actually super familiar with your situation. I've spun my wheels for a long time, drawing for years and never feeling any progress. I quit art entirely for a little while and only jumped back into it the past year. Its really rough. And it can especially suck when the art advice you get constantly is just "draw more" and "It takes time". Both of those things are true, but they aren't motivating and they don't give you direction and direction is one of the most important things to know when you want to know how to draw.

Now cut yourself some slack. The art you drew a month ago was with a thin line pen technique that you are probably more familiar with while your newer one is using a technique you just don't know as well. Its gonna look a little rougher and thats alright. These are STUDIES. They aren't always going to look great. WHat's important is that you try to LEARN something from them.

And you have learned something! Look at your five minute drawings that you just drew compared to about a month ago!

The form on your newer stuff is SO MUCH BETTER. Your lines are sooo much more confident. THe older ones are a scribbly mess while, your later pieces look so much more organic, 3D and less like you are guessing where to put your lines.

Thin scribbly lines are fun, BUT they often trick your eyes into just seeing the lines that work. SO many of your older 30 second to minute gestures work because you just put so many marks down its easier to pick which ones to develope more. That trick doesn't work with the thicker brush. You have to consciously think about every line.

You are better at drawing the line of Action in the older 30 second pieces because you redraw with that sketchy thin line and that holds most of your figures together. Your newer thirty second pieces I can tell you kind of panic, try to add all the things you could before and then the lines get all kerfuffled.

Your newer minute long gestures though, still have most of the same energy as your older work and thats impressive considering they are made with less lines.

Your ten minute pieces are just simply over rendered in your recent work. You are trying to capture the same level of detail as you could with thin lines and thats just not possible, not with a scribbly technique. Concentrate on getting the building blocks of a figure correct when you have longer pieces.

TLDR Advice for next time:

Keep the thicker brush, I think its working.

For 30 second drawings: Don't forget the line of action. Messing up is okay, just remember to correct yourself and don't get too ambitious

For 60 Second Drawings: You are kind of nailing them. Try pushing the poses more and try not to scritch the lines and mark them solidly.

For 5 Minute Drawings: Try to remember the whole figure. Keep your limb lengths in mind.

For 10 Minute Drawings: Get the basic figure correct before adding the shading and details. Don't be afraid to draw them bigger.

I'd love a setting for clothed people with skin contouring outfits. A lot of the models in the "clothed" category are wearing just underwear or tight fitting body suits, which are still pretty easy to draw, but there isn't a setting that separates those from the more difficult outfits.

You're doing great! You've got some very expressive poses!

I think you need to work on form a little more. You seem to spend a long time really trying to nail the gesture of the poses before adding other details to indicate depth and anatomy. Gesture drawing is HARD. Its the first thing that a lot of courses teach you, but its not something you should try to master before you learn other techniques. You have a strong understanding of it at this point, developing how to draw the body in basic shapes will really help you and when you return to practicing gesture, you'll feel more comfortable pushing certain things and understanding how the body is expressing itself.

I'd first practice the torso and pelvis, because the flatness of the torso really weakens your work and while the elipsis you drew for you pelvises works very well, typically a type of box is used there to practice their 3d space.

&t=107s&pp=ygUScHJva28gYmVhbiBtZXRob2Qg

These two vids are great places to start. The bean method is my favorite, but others prefer the box. Practice a few times just drawing the torso's of figures using this technique and you's start to understand bodies as inately 3d. Good luck!

I think you are a very well developed artist. I think you are at the point where just photo references aren't as helpful for you.

Poly's suggestion to work from memory seems like a great idea. I might try using the hand generator to bring up a random hand, looking at it long enough to get a mental image, then turning away and drawing the hand just from memory. Try to draw it quickly to avoid adding to many details, really focus on getting the overall form of the hand down. Don't be afraid to exaggerate the heft and wieght of the hand little, use the techniques that you've probably learned from drawing expressive sacks of flour.

SInce you aren't sure of the exact direction you want to develope your hands beside knowing you want them more expressive (and according to your profile you want to do animation), don't be afraid to look up style references for animated movies and tv. I keep on imagining the hands from the Disney Atlantis movie for some reason, but you might be unconsciously remembering a different movies style and trying to replicate it. It might even be a show or movie that you remembered from you childhood.

Good luck dude! I am insanely jealous of your abilities!

You might be lightly touching the space bar, which pauses the slide show. It happens to me all the time, especially since I press on my space bar when I slide the canvas around in Clip Studio and sometimes I have the wrong window selected.

I just finished an hour study of just drawing hands, so my brain is primed and ready to critique this.

You have a fantastic inuition for the forms of parts of the hands. The way you use curved lines to draw the fingers makes them lively and feel realistic. A slight problem with the style though is that your hands lose a lot of their individual characteristics. If I was to see these fingers in say a panel of a comic page, I'd assume they belonged to an older character.

I think you might have a practiced way of drawing fingers, kind of a default set of lines you make when you draw them. We all do this kind of thing, but for studies, make sure you have an idea of the rest of the form and its characteristics before you commit to that one finger.

You gotten pretty good at putting a recognizable hand on paper, an impressive feat for any kind of artist. Now you just need to hone the details.

IMpressed by your quick turn around with more practices! Looks like you are really vibing with the book you were reccomended!

The funny thing is that even though you said you didn't really like using the thicker brush, I think it was actually pretty effective at reducing some of your worse habits that you practice in your original style. The thicker brushes stopped you from over drawing the circles you use when contructing most of your bodies. Its doing exactly what I wanted it to do and slowing you down just a little.

For comparison these two examples right here.

I feel the one on the left is far more succesful at depicting an animal than the one on the right, even though in a lot of ways it reads flatter. The limbs are mostly finished and the bolder lines feel more pleasing to the eye. Those scritchy lines on the right figure feel quicker when you draw them, but what actually happens when you draw lines over and over like that is this.

*draw line quickly*

*glance at figure to double check, it doesn't feel right*

*draw line quickly again*

*glance at figure again. it still doesn't feel right*

*draw line a little longer this time*

*glance at figure. It feels right. Uh oh time is more gone than you thought QUICK PANIC LINES!*

Even though you draw the lines quickly, sketchy lines waste more time than you think.

Now, even though I clearly like the thicker brush drawings more, if you don't particularly enjoy them, you don't have to do them, at least not all the time. I personally think you should do them as a quick warm up, and then move onto your regular style of practicing, but please, PLEASE try drawing that style for a minute or two, not thirty seconds. Finishing the whole figure an important part of the practice and if you are stuggling to do that in 30 seconds, there is no shame in extending that time. The speed can come later. And I think its a good idea to practice refining your stuff a little more as well.

Don't be afraid to apply the techniques from that book in your gestures too! Especially if you are giving yourself longer times. The second example from your notes link invaluable to master. Understanding the basic form of weird noodle shapes is so dang usefull in all forms of art.

Keep it up!