Messages du forum par Konst54

Found an article with some more details about gesture sketches.

If I'm getting your idea right, you don't do the carcass at 30 sec, but mostly action line / contour / accents in freestyle just to warm up? And from 5+ min do the analysis and carcass work? Seems reasonable, thanks.

Animals

[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vEfv6tvm63PS3eNkNvfz_oX2-lOOtixiW6i6D2mBEyE_-Zm_MZ5_BN4wV64HTVN1WAqNAfYa-07eFHdGTOH-W2oEtuqL7dTJKb4UtrWjf5N-EnXsocifewV6DbdAaxsEzoedvXxxNaRqBxEgrdiWN6slmwSqAEEhrDIiMNg4T4-Qyfq23MNkOTsSiPW4MvcHdp_dOBJ4cwmJkAyKtn3g3a5KOA7PLtDNPFo93SORWb4f_yW8aaLYs5m1OaznpL8d9RDBi9eCucFYPrbpmhaL5RbeiyFnvBDBUgYpen1hqdGZIOmEEZkij6bWaoho6UVMGIR2kGBWgia0_JGguSkOOW8931IVN5umF4QbKplPYBeiOmZ2krBPXjeZfEyFMgi40kim-lbneiEi_hrJv__P4StxDFvG9lZRAB4_IN7KeTIr-B_NHeMC1g4NpQlEpZsv5VLNpBJsNMCCRjkClpEjug23mXKTVVdT5Hg6wYvdVLENLu-mz3IFpxGC-QlhtNape6p5uxdeqekCCHd0DyQccLqV6MermDMceNJLzPvntvlamHW0hFt4xrHZVNoD5cpByLSY7XBlZa57bi6YilJi9cLXehwqJHW_veOJSZd9S4tBu7LltoxIxVNbY3MNgawDUPFu6OFhERaT1_yWRW79ERhLurrwIBa2axUTprups2XOqtIYsiau06G2=s1564-no[/img]

[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/P0KSLuqQyqFaij1jtHtx1N1v7o8A29_8SAbRE1QONFDZYFKQMOPciu3rhqnVNzZuENUZWZqiIJ8_dBBI2V_IfHwiuwvA1JeH8V83kCmFDAiwTN5aWELtYa57mnndJ1AWrl3nTl4dFWJ7eyL2mWZ26cYk-BaGAM1Elqy4W1VbANLDjPRlKZALQ6tTD2B3vRgJLuwEfRRUrUxtwYsfhmUAX__F6DEwu8k4FJqTfWVFsh-7mChSfCXuDmx6KlzO8AU7RRZL9cP4ePkaseUPYrsYlNCZGsFLVnUO1b9K32gOFMrXbpnbQkQ_8BHlm0nNI5AZSQUUgsTZHL_HEKumXOXDTVxuCoFzHftPI0G1SIN749l_yVRB8Ybqvk6guHqAcgz-9hzYsvY2Kcw_fYZ_yDZMi4k61rV8LZspIJcHqZOZOEH3lqPCuwzVXXyrKeqLYrsxE-xuec9mcfl65yoz2JIjavTCyIvH-pnJA0F2kn9cyazXvvqivlMgcTrLluV1m9g3IyvWBdPdBfztHJB5_fKggIoKUkiO9q03pW9r4WurrO5E5HePDcGY2WnmJEidbl4Bmyff1rdoOTwfIADhS5lc1JG4i7AvmGkzIyyukllC9aLdPegvG5AXidmINJuGzxpKlXC-0u05NVXeGjOLe_d_dtjAtL66ALQ4fTlXev-n4bwBMwACp5aZ5AW1=s1564-no[/img]

https://line-of-action.com/article/gesture-basics-1-line-of-action

https://line-of-action.com/article/gesture-basics-2-torso-and-hips

https://line-of-action.com/article/gesture-basics-3-joints

Line of action+pelvis+ribcage+12 dots for joints+12 sticks for limbs... That makes one action in sec, right, not mentioning figuring out the proportion and planning the action?

Ooops 30 sec are out. Actually more often I can't even make the above carcass work in time. And it's not precise at all. Not mentioning any realistic contour detalisation.

Should I switch to bit slower sketches first, e.g. 60 secs to make the whole work? Or keep doing this 30 sec run, trying to make it even faster?

What about contour? Should 30 sec sketches be just stick figures or a bit more realistic? Should I switch from sticks to the contour or try to do both in given time fast?

How you guys do these realistic sketches in 30 secs?

As for me, there are two aspects - construction and contour. I think that getting the construction in the first place is good way, and then you add coutours and details. But sometimes catching contour first is way to enjoy process, why not. You can read some Bammes.

For me helps to do hands more with straight lines - after all bones are straight. It makes them much more robust. And then I add fine line curves for joints, muscles, folds. Joints are important detail, even when from the first sight finger is straight.

Don't forget variation of line strength and detalisation in perspective, hands are 3d object, putting accents helps.

Btw you can draw also your own left hand, it gives you more 3d experience and detail, and it's available even somewhere in public transport )).

Practise a lot :)

Good luck! :)

Some new figures (not much progress in the result yet, but I enjoy the process and try to hold the line-of-action and sticks advice, tricky thing for me, taking much time and sometimes not precise enough)

[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VxXakQT2ndeb_tPApLpV7RkC_GoKgIND136eV7nWjXyS7dn6y3G2udk0HUBE_XrTHQ6cqDnmUbQ3XtY1eroxZmUzjlTU9zmm2XGWjgTnujvwuwHfQl1idNJZQSqw4C76ufVue3-Y0mxDg5y_wjP18BSMP5f9eTbHbYZCz1Bod2NTDE9khTfgt7atIbEHlMctWmSPW5deOr70so5JaoiA8FCMTUzSzvxBVO5ptA5ew-g2fzf08OcWyXOJD9aDIKSGJInpBb2zzwctHL8nNto_Cp0k44UATpZhDRe24rAJRy-26-BQVABY6XJUcHnB7UgF1A0yd7Aw362LvXjt8P_ZFwF1drm6qKG6AsDb00P4M2fGk3pxywZZ9WwVak0xMC5OtC_WwDdz1J-MHe0rMyJ7rCcEB6Qx7qPV0XDjDsMFYqLHa0XgdSwymcfjPbpnChZ1KxuC-bDoSfGbp6UOhDCio2TKv-m71acrkxCH6QfXNC2ao0yVTogDopsMb6VPoFUjwQjFpNunvFdJelNyEjWXetB47ioymx2C0-EimV7TVZTQfYB4UoCW_4rjS9aFxN2A17aOIVN616yCpipnH8eBOX_PacBjIcapik5HQxJE3k8c5Ck50nlfjcc1ctMnvDOMgjs_3x-AUtbIrjllJ9B0i-7Y5tI9pqOw4McbmcwXNTuuK9AOGdsDi6e6JMsBatML_qdZp7jl8pbC6kV2jLAEdreN1bQxENCCIj-sRrxK5I3GACVpiA=s1564-no[/img]

Hands and feet:



[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/X6QkKmkAkOcDvW2-7uvzj8VcG5aCrCRDd6OegRbt3fwJJ8idmQ5lW36LxvrNcrohwOx-R9slD80LEnDN4Znwykk3EEgtd0HySzAzQ2mXzx4BV6hnNVNOyhLkxGRe8DUiTI-_mdMZzT9d_DHOeUaZXTxkE3GMJwq6dxRwTcnIPdEvU2oSnbkypAUOmvMWz8K56TRNp4V57ZLf3kc6kEekJTw8ewh3JizeDtsdX2X2zbUEKNoDNjeYMHL82FUjIe1bI_04zVbTAGABItT7l1MPu3N22Snv_TTveUraaGqBFUrRd1kTeomIC9bkIFaXbs4NzHSca5lpD4LJmGG-bdrcEnyc0KiRFGKktjmzKHBnQ3ixdEIrY5f3KVWy9-ZRlABdloSVmWNkFLyrqbF5ArKk0T9TvGiLXrZpZhQtNWEHcM_iLNJcfSiL-tLt0Wby50IO64PDYxCGPRfiX8KOBvJ_COa2jqIwgVuB8xkSN0RlEsPSKSoq-kJ7B3mVCjhEEw6ypxyq2MXikGST3CNIznKDvQgnTRQIbOaGmsrJNTR3NphpqNjj5DL4vLOise1cgiMbMs65Q2JBbm7KSnTyNkLtsTbas6vVsEX0adS8D5sn733AtRdPzLCrI5fGiyUrOPwIjuH4xPHMfnuY8yGbjgN45MP_X35mc2GUyUOsX61Re8buVW3Ae1XBtTFF=s1564-no[/img]

[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/w9NmzI2zfkqJcIONc21WeV1Vz8S3fejj9URssHNwegZhk60mKE5MownAJgGRwyDOpmtbSA8HqPkZoR2pO0TzeQ6q1cduhzdu4VXULlkILNdiyFLQ_uTz7VoLbphuGrOHKvG8I0XjQMSVR1d5HfYzVUJ3GLT62QVwQ1_k7Ld1ZGmw5uqrIElwzaid9oASWPltFPDr_GBF47z6RyyiNDDu-PL1Sl__33fZLwUDvxdzux-2ZkxyfkddOtEJQIby5yb2cdS4nD3hCkhdWjxaoM0RWst8CTcC78c3iAZeGLn3JMNFCRrlvTa775J1LTHdLpYY_fqhw319mISk711OH7T5CSPmPkbwh_X3xvlWQ4QrZjZSDqEWinqYoTZC1xB8Y3vbSZXlQnmXLvvfzWRZ9Vpuwyh0M82AGdlz2VO40xWumEDcaib2QxzDSKhvo5FsCMSLmSkHcDEDJ_H560kTn499xyCgFbg3xelpUHg7OVn82QHwZeGwC7l6-ID5MUrWO2fjZhK1xhy_g0jYJaYhnWNqo-TPIYEatdhKG4bsVdMhYa9_0Baaym_isdYMTcmDy5Db71iylgqh9D1MeHGq4gKlb9Pbb52Xlfdysx01F7b9RN7VdtMTE91zGJEBdMOVQ1RrcXwLHI4pBwEypbUryhzn6ICRMwFq8tPZdkIWLBUIRsJUXzP0yM6kIIDB=s1564-no[/img]

Faces

[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vl8V3JNps2TuSYxSvgeKbeH29hh-UqP9TparfM9CUrg1PSO4yrO5L-0CEMQ4Qqqgcby8b6okkOzVNYI5EZcdNDucPmHR81PxfQYF3n8LQq8Yw86nJwBF2zyO3queLBSrb58L9TWv3uB8V4Aa-QRqzgu-6OVNh-jlJXhn3BvxJcpXwGiWqkoxhXNJCxb7AOBQpMVzZyjL9XNwA2VyENe6CsKOzSICgaWLo-9IUVwwALk_rayqTA21pegMEMdQl83cFtaOei5kSeAsY248RHwIvwv_kukdjBnlDw__xTbV0IfCY0P9sSzhQ43K6IZwIc35pyUzeEC0LbKhqcqHWOGKRpQExN1CCOy62DnZtrRZGjPIk4BA0bjI7Xjp1apAPZ1KUDUr0U7WVeEOnNCm-EC0YkCmCSVKO57GqpkdyBSRUK1X_Az6JiPM6LwDBBElUE4kLbc2_yz7XVmxKTZKV7E1V8u_VESmqoLNyXBp1YIM8btpcPemAErfefrzvveXlDiD3RpRwnWAmFcaoWfc4wV88zM9cOgItkdjxo_ugTIFEehOCVLyIxHfgT6o2nnL3xSd9JGCyq7gAjJHsm3cgjYiQrsBtVKikLsDk3WZcg4P1A3FZXZywEeHm5D_EAXZN9xKDYjOX8WzzCehzwuHXS14FRER9cIvjaOokKQBtNFvstCwpxgpaYr3NCMHk-VT03Whcmo6GOXqgbUS9PE1nfHFZg3tF-JvvrT5l10TsdmmZAEeVwdIZQ=s1564-no[/img]

Countour is the thing I actually like to stick to. When I do - it gets bit more accurate and detailed, but often the overall drawing becomes bit dissociated - I do mistakes with construction, proportions, etc.

So now I'm onto goal of paying attention to the carcass, line of action, prorportion and joints. So countour gets firstly less time, secondly - I try to catch overall primitives, not to be distracted by the detalisation of the specific contour. Anyway, I should put some balance in it, thanks for suggestion. Negative shapes is a good thing. Maybe I should try to use it for construction\proportion stage as well.

Thank you for your advice)

You mean the first one, with the puppy? (third one is dog as well, digging some pit - less recognizable ;))

Yeah, usually I try to put dot&sticks carcass here, they just get lost in the mess, and sometimes I put them not precise enough actually. Good point about erasing, thanks. Sometimes I just put way too much lines and get lost there, not sure what to do in such situation )) Sometimes blacking out some more accents helps.

Thank you for cheering up and feedback)

With animals I see following:

1. I don't clearly understand their anatomy

2. I have some problems with 3d thinking (e.g. where the other side of the pelvis shoud be, if it's hidden). With human drawings as well.

3. I don't have clear understanding of algorithm for animal posture\gesture. I also lack habit in it.

4. I try to catch some planes and volumes, as they help to get more realistic proprotion, and overall look, but sometimes fail with percieving right shape, or with visual display

Some animals.



[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NA1pWNYKe3hT3qFR1UXTNjCF4gBaDyMUuV4pHAMKqHbwEYxml7QfyquyCreEmAT2eDte_6X1qt2uqpJLnzCbinl8yUuBnIU0FDglKO7s_6x2aZnyLx7K1ShmercXUZNRCe7CbHgeul8KjolC4LlRbcNhl1nSoNon_pSdAutw3r5upFXFtwOswpmTZsYjeUV0ljlQrRKjkyKNPyMqqQvDK2frfP3NUuCPVz3TjPRCTLPL_HD7EmMgGtEKjAxunukoPpaaCPgVU95ZTV9fsT9CbYRboFKN4BWmNmoGQ5FPzHX4tHe4xaxRmxEZk5IbBllSNkJXCh1EfWREqLuX0uf_zIgEo5bd7iVOWi-6j5aDB6YUxOAj_aXnnok3UA5euNXZJ0BIluDOYeq7uUjAZR0yl465O6DQhkoviFSTHKrfOqdfJ4EV4Zn1-kQON57fw5SbGK6luFh98QC0FlAhSDNpdRIrPMvPbFHfEGVd5-6Xol5k3VrmKyptMqH_DU8MIUuu5E_2rby9U-tVbmU4Ue6gkTOZwJmwZsNNPAuzLESHh-kFSAuW-kAET8oxDMXM4jsRXamQOduo1MrBh2qOOc_30LfC3YIqatgDU9_XT3b6DttI0KGPAMY8nwGAN8nEkvbi_gnoXj_I8NjUM-01vMqQ_nEujO-XdtK8qsfV776tYl3zdSJg7VZ3Fep5jeYgEyfara0vQlJ1zh5FLspn9N6D7ocQprd-fog3VtSd-iAiIR_v2scmzQ=w1458-h1942-no[/img]

At the moment I see some proportion problems.

1. Trying to start with line of action and ovals, I don't draw ovals exactly sized - meaning the proportions of one (vertical\horizontal) and to each other.

2. I don't compose the sketch in the paper

3. Often i start drawing lines for the limbs, putting joint dots only after that - it seems quicker and easier for me. But maybe it distracts me from structuring position of the joints and general composing.

4. Sometimes I do a lot of distracting visual "noise". Maybe I should do additional step of erasing\bolding. Or plan a bit and do assertive lines.

5. Often I get distracted by some details I like. Should do that only after I'm satisfied with overall structure, and do some steps of structuring general-to-exact maybe.

Hello.

Would appreciate your feedback and advice.

All originals are here



[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KPPqDjDHAqrac2dgKZUMHkptW3XmIBeE-j43RLGM5sMxaAyhHftk3SLOwIWJk9LxF0DNhNqg6KLNBPLIbXYn051eHTlVmIU3plmAv1nczBceOLBU3MpzDgBtxJcb1LCfrMiFilsN4_Du5r9qOpJ7WqQYoZE_wbAAmFjK04Ga5ZE5g6AGWfiSNf9q8g957-TuNS_eGykD9sEQmUMLg9zIpNdOhckLL854Ag_Vsqw0EtVuC7lrp5V4Ufzwpgja6S03ke502HFDCCJGJ2naY4PfG-Oa0-gvfneSZDyzHAyDi2l7ySzfailQd4l-GQQw94Q_To3Ybt0GT1kgi6SAlpZJKHbFMe6TLShTdUMHbQm4KN-EZEDQEGd71NRQ9Dw9iynnYtW0S1zMN-1WOWTwhs2REMyPq8FLryUgPNydrfxOfyrj7Siy7vxupNvi84HQ6pnk4OEJScRxAoh-uRYGG7rcj4jlrm7EIOT_uuc_5UqS3NNHGt6XV-WAMv7aOBKa2G-hojyS4f2UFcOeKIBrXE3oOQgPZesBxFq4YR8xadCaVKfYLqzy1ZxZDoOzZH1yE19kNPuE6BBxKwgo9B8ngaivZVte2xr4DBPE1wyLCfXbX1alh0cmKLqiZ9msd1S_aiVddgLhSYR0C4bS8ERzEdwBEFHeupILhEz9HPfx-fveGNxMayzmSVP_wR0m2BmIi-P8gXEn8MSNgMKAzacOZgwBFpZzfQjLAKe5v6B_gLHmEWoBsQ_WKw=s1942-no[/img]