Icouldntthinkofaname的論壇貼

Old thread so I deletes my original response, but Reddit's art / critique culture is also just horrible. You're more likely to get nitpicked, called lazy, or roasted by edgy "that's reality, kid" weirdoes than actual critique. A few Discord servers have that too, but I've gotten slightly better results on those.

(Oh no I'm not offended! I agree! I got into the series with Portable so I have a soft spot for it).

Thank you again!

Good plan! TYSM!!!

(Great news! I'm also a cosplayer! Just need to figure out how to translate that to art.

I actually have a soft spot for original P3's art, but I definitely prefer Metaphor's overall look, I think a lot of the designs are really cool).

Wait, really? For some reason I feel like arms especially don't click - I think it's something about the way they bend, but I always get really frustrated when working on them. It's hard to see your own progress sometimes, but that's kind of a relief. No news is good news, huh.

I don't really have anyone off the top of my head for foreshortening specifically, but I generally try lean pretty anime when it comes to faces and other details (artists like Shigenori Soejima [especially in Metaphor], Yusuke Kozaki, and pakosun). For body anatomy I like a bit more definition (things like Jen Zee's Hades art or more recent Guilty Gear entries), but can afford to not adhere strictly to that goal in some work (doing all that for an animation seems inefficient). Coloring (I'm actually struggling with consistent goals for this one - I like a lot of coloring styles) and adding details like clothing seems to also cause some 3D issues, but I don't have many examples because my laptop is in the shop.

(also yeah that pretty much never worked for me, it mostly just messed with the anatomy. Boxes worked much better but every so often there's a weird angle that I can't make them make sense for).

Beyond frustrated with many years of experience and dedication to this specific topic in particular for nearly 2 years now. My brain refuses to do "3D" - things like foreshortening and limbs. Torsos don't really have this issue and I can draw passable 3D shapes, but arms, legs, and heads never seem to be convincing. They always look "flat".

Here's what I've tried (so please don't suggest these):

- Draw A Box

- Multiple textbooks (Force, Anatomy for Sculptors, Drawing the Human Head, Figure Drawing: Design and Invention)

- Actual classes (I got a B :'D )

- YouTube channels such as Proko, Marc Brunet, Ethan Becker, and more or less anyone who's posted decent anatomy tutorials.

- Drawing from photos, movies, real people I see outside, and other artists, aa well as muscle studies

- This website

- For methods specifically, I've tried both coil foreshortening and bounding boxes (slightly better results for these, but becomes an issue when filling in actual anatomy).

Almost everyone tells me to just study more or that I'll get there with more practice, but almost all I do is study. I've filled multiple sketchbooks now, please help! Examples: https://imgur.com/a/3ehjBWW

• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 9, 2024 6:04pm.

I own the book! But my laptop is under repairs and I don't have access to it right now (at least, not on a large enough screen to be helpful).

I actually watch all of those channels already except Fine Art Academy, which doesn't really suit my needs, and Michael Mattesi (who I didn't know had a YouTube channel - thank you! Michael Hampton also has one, which I recommend).

Thank you, though! I appreciate it a lot!

• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 9, 2024 5:27pm.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 9, 2024 5:27pm.

I understand that this well intended, but you're not really helping or warning people by putting them down. Telling people "you must not understand this" "if you can't even do that" "it's too late if you're that" is discouraging. It's rude. People saying things like that to me made me want to quit.

Your mindset has been poisoned because the way you're learning isn't effective for you; don't poison other people too. You have actual commentary, even; you could just say "try 15 second practices and work on your shapes", without the assumptions or defeatism. I'd argue that that would be more helpful.

If how you're learning doesn't work, find a new method or a better teacher, and unlearn that set of "lessons" you've put in your bio. Your experiences are not universal.

(Apologies to OP here; I'm going to go ahead and stop replying on a critique thread).

• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 8, 2024 1:04am.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 8, 2024 1:07am.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 8, 2024 1:07am.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 8, 2024 1:09am.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 8, 2024 1:17am.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 8, 2024 1:17am.

Idon'tknow, genuine question here - is there a reason you keep replying to people in that way? How is saying "you must not understand all those details" helpful? You don't actually know for sure what OP knows based on just these sketches.

Remember that learning what critique to accept and what to reject is also a skill. You are allowed to care what comes out, especially since analyzing your own work and mistakes (kindly) is part of the process of improving.

• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 7, 2024 7:33pm.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 7, 2024 7:35pm.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 7, 2024 7:36pm.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 7, 2024 7:36pm.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 7, 2024 7:37pm. Reason: Correcting language; being a little more polite.

My laptop is broken, so websites / services / paid courses just aren't an option. I want to practice. Is there a structured course for anatomy / etc on YouTube (honestly, something in the vein of Bob Ross or a class session), or a challenge where each stage is split into different videos?

Please don't suggest Proko or Marc Brunet, I already watch them.

Happy to help!

Oh, this looks good! I actually don't think the eyes are totally the issue here; I think the one that's further away may just be a little squished (I do this a lot myself). Eyes in 3/4 views like this are usually about the same height as each other, with the one further away being narrower (if that makes sense; I'm on mobile but can't find the simple guide I'm thinking of).

I looked at the artists you mentioned and I see the issue here, but I think you're close - you're drawing these features fairly realistically (and good job! That nose is seriously impressive), while, like you said, both of them are more stylized.

Peacchip's eyes in particular have very clear shapes to them (does that make sense), and I think both draw them a bit larger. In both cases, the rest of the face plays a role, too! Both of them draw simpler noses and mouths, and I think have more dramatic line weight differences (thicker upper eyelash, thinner lower eyelash, a more "anime" shape, less detailed folds). I also think pushing the eyebrows and mouth will help achieve the expression you want. You know the rules, but you aren't quite breaking them yet.

I don't think you have to do much to get where you want here - you're really close! Good luck! I'd also suggest checking out some Satoshi Kon movies for another style that's fairly close.

Edit: Sorry for bringing up stylization, I'm a bit sleep deprived and missed that you had already mentioned that.

• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 6, 2024 9:14pm.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 6, 2024 9:16pm.
• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 6, 2024 9:17pm.

Hey, good job on these! I think you have a pretty solid understanding of the actual poses, so I think you'd benefit from doing more muscle and anatomy studies instead; really train those 3D shapes. There's a lot of overlap, but they aren't quite the same skillset.

Anatomy for Sculptors is a good, thorough resource for that, and I'd also suggest Taco1704 and Michael Hampton. Proko can be hit-or-miss but is helpful for a lot of people!

• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 5, 2024 10:23pm.

Yeah, I've had my fair share of issues but I don't agree with the other user's advice either. It's counterproductive to learning. I think it's in poor taste to tell someone who's learning that something is completely beyond them or unachievable; bringing other people into self-deprecating talk isn't "being realistic", it's really just insulting the other person. Having good teachers helps, but the internet is a solid resource, so why not use it? Plenty of artists start off being self-taught.

You can't tell what a person is or isn't doing or what their life is like just from looking at their art; find people who are interested in your journey to get critique from. You want folks that ask questions about your work and what you're trying to do.

I think starting late might give you some mindset advantages; you'll likely have an easier time knowing what works for you. Additionally, lot of Japanese artists are in their 40s - 60s, and a lot of their early work looks pretty different. Don't have too many examples of late bloomers off the top of my head for manga or game artists, but Van Gogh started painting at 27. Kandinsky started learning art when he was 30.

Circumstances can affect your ability to draw, but innate talent doesn't really exist. Art spaces tend to suffer from a standardized grindset mindset that doesn't account for disability or things like that. There's no one-size-fits-all approach; not every technique will work or click with every person. Not every experience is universal (I have trouble with general audience advice because my own issues with art are outside of most peoples' area of expertise). I had people tell me that Draw A Box would solve all of my problems. I learned nothing, hated every second, and still get people yelling at me about it. It's good for a specific type of learner.

For actual art advice, you seem to already know what you want your art to look like, and that's a great start. If you're looking for specific tips, I really like the guides from EtheringtonBros, Manga Materials, and Taco1704 (I believe they're all on Twitter and Instagram). Michael Hampton's book is good for more 'complex' simplified anatomy, and he also has a YouTube channel. I also really like Pikat (also on YouTube). A number of manga artists have YouTube channels (Akihito Yoshitomi regularly posts his sketch processes, and VOFAN posts speedpaints with express purpose of sharing the process), and a few episodes of Naoki Urasawa's Manben are available with English subtitles. Also be sure to study those artists you like, too! See how they stylize or simplify things.

But if you want to just keep doing what you're doing for a while, why not do that? Feeling like you have to do other things right now will make the process less fun, and so will only ever doing fundamentals. If you're not sure where to go, you can ask for more direct critique, too; people can usually point you in a direction.

Tiny edit: As a fellow TKRB fan, should add that many of the artists are also on social media (this goes for most gacha games with multiple artists' contributions), so it might be worth seeing if any of them post process or sketches or things like that.

• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on November 5, 2024 8:15pm.

Best bet is to find someone whose opinions you trust. Reddit's art community can be really toxic depending on the problem, so I'd avoid it personally.

• Icouldntthinkofaname edited this post on October 23, 2024 8:40pm.

I completed the challenge myself; it's very common to get tired or burned out at the end and phone it in, rather than progressing in a linear fashion. Are you getting feedback / logging your challenge on the website?

Alternately, DAB may just not be a good fit for you. A lot of people praise it and swear it's the only way to improve, but it's only effective for certain experiences and learning styles; I found that it wasn't very helpful for me, personally.