Meijiisconfused的論壇貼

Oh wait, I just realized how old this topic is. Well, I hope you found appropriate help during those 2 last months and things got at least a bit better.

I'm going to be a little more pragmatic than the other replies, I'm sorry I won't provide much emotional support.

But I suggest that you also look at the logical side of things. I've never been diagnosed with depression, but I'm super emotional. I've gotten around the many times I've been "depressed," mostly by thinking a bit more logically. Every point I'm going to make is from my personal experience, so take all of this with a grain of salt.

I. Source of the problem

You have to solve the problem at its source. I don't know you, but it is very likely that:

a) You should get help from professionals who can help with your mental health.

b) Something in your life is currently the cause of your depression. Is it because of society or the country you live in? Family problems? Physical health? Social life? Work conditions? Noisy neighbors? etc. I suggest you look into that first.

II. Other hobbies and passions

Again, I don't know you. But by reading your posts, you seem to only have one hobby: drawing. I honestly think this is not a situation you want to get stuck in for an extended period of time.

Having multiple hobbies doesn't hurt. There was a period in high school when I was in a similar situation, but with music. It really felt like I was banging my head against a wall all day whenever I wasn't satisfied with a track I created or when I couldn't play my instruments as well as usual. This is because it was the only thing that I was doing back then.

And then, as time went on, I picked up new interests. As of now, art, music, and bodybuilding are my main hobbies, with other "secondary interests" that I don't invest that much time in: fashion, hairstyling, anime, cooking, Olympic weightlifting, and twitch streamers (sadly lol).

Something important: my passion for music didn't die or get weaker; it was rather the opposite. Each hobby you have feeds into each other. A few personal examples:

a) Bodybuilding taught me that taking breaks is important to avoid burnouts. I applied this to art and music.

b) Art taught me that the building blocks (the sketch) are crucial for any piece. I applied that to music composition (making mini-tracks before composing) and practice (playing with a slow metronome first).

c) Music taught me that using reference tracks (fully fleshed-out songs from other people that are in the same style of music) is crucial for checking the overall feel and mix. I applied that to art, when I pull up pieces from other artists, just to give me a reference for what I want my piece to feel like.

d) Hairstyling introduced me to the concept of sculpting.

e) Fashion and anime/manga give me endless inspiration for both art and music.

And needless to say, each hobby inspires me to an extent to be creative.

Don't be afraid to discover new passions and hobbies; always be curious about things. You might find that maybe drawing is not your only passion. It is okay to stop doing art from time to time when you feel the need to. Your passion for art won't die.

III. Art skills

You're also probably not happy with your art skills.

I know that, compared to music, art takes way more patience to be gratified with your own work. In music, just play a chord on the keys or play a riff on the guitar; you get a nice, entertaining sound.

But with art, you have to make the thumbnail, the sketch, and then the inking, the rendering, etc. It is way more tedious to get a result, and the amount of gratification heavily depends on the skill of the artist.

If that is the case, I suggest you look into what you should improve and try to find the resources that suit you the best.

Literally make a list of every aspect of art that interests you (gesture, composition, colors, values, human anatomy, animal anatomy, perspective, inking, technique, etc.), evaluate your skills, and try to find the best courses or instructors that suit each of these aspects.

And one last thing, something I wish I was aware of when I first started doing art: don't try to reinvent the wheel. This is very tempting to do when you are self-taught. But people have already figured this all out. There are a ton of structured courses for art for you to delve into, and some of them are even free.

Hoped that helped, don't give up.

Meiji

• Meijiisconfused edited this post on February 6, 2024 2:33pm.
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on February 6, 2024 2:36pm.

Hi,

I'm glad to see that there are now quite a few of us in this group.

But I just wanted to remind you all to not hesitate to post here.

Whether it's questions about the method, requests for criticism, advice etc., I'll at least be here to help as much as I can. (And of course, don't hesitate to help each other as well.)

Also, check out the group presentation post if you haven't already: https://line-of-action.com/forums/topic/welcome-here

Happy (late) New Year ;)

Meiji

• Meijiisconfused edited this post on February 1, 2024 9:35pm.

I haven't gone the paid route yet but I've read the books and I watch the livestreams.

From what I've experienced, Mattesi puts enough ressources out here to have a good grasp of Force drawing.

Especially the livestreams, I think him and the instructors go in pretty good detail on the subjects found in the books. I usually search in youtube [something I have trouble with] followed by "mattesi force" and I can find a stream about that most of the time.

You can also find the 3 or 4 videos he made for Proko (that's how I found out about him personally), where he explains the main points of his approach.

As for the books, I focus on these in particular :

-the Force for animators book, which is just a cleaner version of his first book about Force with additional parts for animation AFAIK

-the anatomy book, which I pair with other scientific ressources to go more in detail (mainly anatomy diagrams and quizzes)

-the animal drawing book, mainly because it gives me a better understanding of Force drawing as it is applied to living beings other than humans

Of course I'd imagine a mentorship would be the ideal way to make progress, but I can't speak for people who actually experienced it.

Btw, there's a livestream about an ex-mentee : https://www.youtube.com/live/z9qvh_0UWVY , but take that with a grain of salt because at the end of the day, it's pretty much advertising for the mentorship.

Hey welcome to the group, thanks for the encouraging words :D

If you have any questions about the method or just want some feedback, feel free to make a topic. I'll gladly help!

Hi everyone!
I created this group two months ago, but then got burned out of drawing shortly after because I attempted to practice 4-6 hours a day, nearly every day, for a few months. Each day consisted of multiple sessions of figures, faces, hands, and feet + 1 hour of anatomy study.
For now, I plan to practice no more than 1h30–2 hours a day, reducing my practice days to no more than 4 days a week.

So I didn't draw for straight up 2 months, but today I felt in the mood of doing a single figure session again.
https://imgur.com/a/rYrtXAM

There's clearly a downshift in quality compared to my previous works, but that's perfectly normal.
I still got the feel of drawing gestures, but my anatomy got reaaaaally rusty. Anatomy will mainly be the focus of my future sessions, just to get into the flow of drawing anatomy again.

• Meijiisconfused edited this post on November 1, 2023 8:56pm. Reason: spelling
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on November 1, 2023 9:10pm.

Hey everyone, thanks for joining the group!

Gesture/rhythm/flow/force (or whatever you want to call it) is a crucial thing to understand in order to draw living things, and in my personal experience, Force drawing is a great guide for that.
I believe the Force method deserves to have a study group mainly because it really explains the reasoning behind gesture (the explanation of gesture is often overlooked in art courses), but it is also a difficult concept to grasp. This group is aimed at helping each other understand this method.
On top of that, one of the Force books gets recommended from time to time on the Practice Tool page, so I thought this group would be a great fit for this site.

This group is focused mainly on gesture. Nonetheless, discussing the actual use of gesture in different things such as anatomy, design, animation, perspective, composition, painting, actual pieces etc. is more than welcome.

I don't think there's any point in putting out a list of rules for this group, but please be respectful and be as positive as possible around others. That's it.

Feel free to post critique requests, questions, discussion topics, practice sessions, etc. I've been delving into this method for several months, so I'll do my best to help!

• Meijiisconfused edited this post on November 1, 2023 8:31pm.
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on November 1, 2023 8:58pm. Reason: spelling
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on November 1, 2023 9:08pm.
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on November 2, 2023 4:35am.

I agree with Theo, though I don't know how hard would it be to code that, I think this would be a great update to the site since some models seem to have way more photos than other models.

And just too add to all of this, I was searching for a video that summarizes how to find the curve lines in the 30 second poses and luckily Michael Mattesi did this stream a just a few days ago

Start watching at 29:45, one of the instructors explains how to find these lines in general. The more you'll repeat this process of trying to find the curves, the more intuitive it will be !

• Meijiisconfused edited this post on September 5, 2023 9:17pm.

Sorry for making so many edits to my posts, I'm not a native english speaker but want to make points as clear as possible (^_^;)

Hi Kane!

First off, I just wanted to say that it’s a great thing you’ve decided to practice more consistently. Consistent practice is key, and in my experience even if you don’t do it every day, just make sure to have at least a weekly practice routine of some kind.

I see that you’re following the method taught by this site’s tutorial for figure drawing, that’s a great way of starting out. However I think it’s not ideal to rely only on this tutorial and a little too vague if you want to fully delve into figure drawing. So don’t hesitate to take a look at books, online courses or videos on this subject and choose an approach that speaks to you.

Also, I find that you're lacking basic understanding of perspective. While I disagree with the practice of relying only on cubes and cylinders to draw lively things such as the human figure, having perspective ingrained in your mind is crucial to make your drawings believable.
Personally, what helped me the most is going through the drawabox.com lessons on perspective, and I really recommend doing the 250 boxes challenge once you're ready.
You'll also learn how to improve your line quality in the first lessons.

Now, for the critique and advices :

I’ll make most of my critique on 30 second poses as they are fundamental for drawing longer poses. FYI, as someone who is currently learning Michael Mattesi's gesture method, my advices will be heavily inspired by this specific way of drawing the figure.

Here are some diagrams I made to make my points clearer. I think they are mandatory for understanding what I'll write below, so please check them out : https://imgur.com/a/YZBXGXF

30 second poses :

1) Good use of the line of action. However, the torso and pelvis should work as one single unit and they define most of the gesture of the body. Which means that you’re better off finding a way of drawing these 2 parts quickly as 1 gestural unit. My personal favorite is the "bean" that I've seen being taught by Proko and Michael Mattesi.

2) I think limiting yourself with 1 line = 1 link for 2 limb joints like you did is the way to go for 30 second poses. But you have to be more expressive with these lines and exaggerate them. You can still use circles to represent joints if that helps you.

3) I’ve explained what you want to achieve first when drawing 30 second poses on the imgur photo : for now, draw only the “curve” lines from the straight-to-curve shapes you find on the body

1 minute poses :

1) After drawing the "curve" lines during the first 30 seconds, complete the limbs with "straights" line. Avoid drawing blobby masses around the lines you've established in the first 30 seconds. Notice how straight lines terminate not directly at the joint itself but a little bit after it (similar to how a tendon attaches to a bone).

2) Do not worry about form/perspective yet and keep focusing on how the pose feels and its motion.

5 minute poses :

1) This is usually the part where you add form and perspective. You can do so by doing some wrapping on body parts with contour lines to show perspective and create box-like and cylinder-like forms. Drawing the underwear for clothed poses can also help for giving cues of perspective.

1a) Once you're good enough to the point that you're currently learning anatomy, I find jumping straight to drawing anatomy (while still having perspective in mind) is a viable approach. This makes perspective and gesture merge together to bring another level of liveliness into the figure.

2) Measuring can also come into play here, whether you want to correct your drawing to be more accurate, or instead just exaggerate the pose. I usually look for positive/negative space and where different parts overlap. Some other people like using head units as a measurement tool.

3) Avoid drawing details (especially the hands, feet and facial features/hair ) if you're not even convinced that you've drawn the basic stuff yet. It's always gesture first, then construction, and then the details.

10 minute pose :

I see that you've started coloring but I'd say don't go into that territory yet. I think the figure you've done was not solid enough to add that much detail. Like I said above, if you think the construction of your figure is lacking, take time to do it well before jumping into details.

Overall, I think you mostly need practice first and foremost since you began to take figure drawing seriously just a few days ago.

Also since you're pretty new to this, here some principles I've learned so far in general:

- Do not be emotionally attached to your drawings you've done as part of exercises. Make mistakes and enjoy learning from them.

- Stay curious and like I said, don't hesitate to look up books and courses on the subject from instructors that speak to you.
When being self taught, it is tempting to have that "re-inventing the wheel" mindset, but avoid that. Great masters and instructors who already have figured this out have great structured courses on art, and some of them are even free.

I really hope this helped, feel free to ask back questions or remarks :)

• Meijiisconfused edited this post on September 3, 2023 8:06pm. Reason: spelling
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on September 3, 2023 8:07pm. Reason: spelling
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on September 3, 2023 8:12pm. Reason: added bold text to make the text more readable
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on September 3, 2023 8:19pm. Reason: clarification
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on September 3, 2023 8:25pm. Reason: clarification
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on September 3, 2023 10:25pm. Reason: clarification
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on September 4, 2023 6:52am. Reason: rephrased the text for the imgur link to clarify its purpose

Hi Kermittz!

Sorry for the late reply but I found this topic while scrolling on the forum and I think it's a interesting subject.

What helped me personally is to think first and foremost about the gesture between the torso and the pelvis and then build from that. I think there's a good reason why figure drawing courses like the one from Proko starts teaching first a bean-like form instead of the robo-bean right away.

When I draw a pose with a twist, I always force myself to think about the "S" relationship between the torso and the pelvis. Here are examples from 2 reference pics : https://imgur.com/a/Y5xklyx

Hope this helped, please let me know if you have any questions :)

Edit: I misread your post at the "more than 3 planes" part, my bad. In that case I think my point about the "S" gesture still stands, just ignore what I wrote on the 2nd example.

• Meijiisconfused edited this post on September 2, 2023 8:13pm. Reason: spelling
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on September 2, 2023 8:16pm. Reason: clarification
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on September 2, 2023 9:25pm. Reason: clarification
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on September 2, 2023 9:41pm. Reason: spelling

Hi!

I had this problem when I started to seriously learn about head construction but then became more and more accurate at getting the cranium size right just by practicing.

Marco Bucci (art instructor) in his online course Understanding And Painting The Head, while showing a skull in profile view said this at one point :

Here is a thing a lot of people get wrong : the cranium is MASSIVE, our brain has to fit here. A lot of people will cut off the cranium, and you get this odd rectangular head shape, it has no room for the brain.

This very problem seems like a normal thing to occur when people start learning head construction, so as long as you are aware about this problem don’t sweat it and try to draw bigger craniums from now on to go against this habit.

You also have to keep in mind that any general representation of the head (Loomis head, Asaro head etc.) do not fit perfectly on everyone’s head. In most cases, you’ll have to stretch or squash the proportions of the standardized head you’re using when drawing from reference.

Hope this helped and if you have any questions I’ll try to answer :)

• Meijiisconfused edited this post on September 2, 2023 6:48pm.
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on September 2, 2023 9:29pm. Reason: corrected the quote

Hi!

It's been awhile since I've asked for feedback, so please feel free to critique my work. Feel free to also lead your critiques with questions if you need to.

https://imgur.com/a/oWJM5jD

(Note: I'm aware that the shading on the 10 minute poses might be not coherent, I just usually run out of time and leave big parts of the pose untreated.)

These past 2 months I've been regularly practicing with only pencil and paper to practice my confidence in my strokes. I've recently gone back to practicing digitally just to keep things interesting and to try to translate my traditional skills to digital.

Also during this period, I took a first look at anatomy with Mike Mattesi's book and downloaded a 3D anatomy app on my phone in order to learn more details on the subject. I also took Marco Bucci's online course for the anatomy of the head.

While I see clear improvements compared to a few months ago, I'd like an external point of view on what looks right or wrong.

Thanks!

• Meijiisconfused edited this post on August 31, 2023 6:58pm.
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on August 31, 2023 6:58pm.
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on September 1, 2023 6:08pm. Reason: added 1 image to the imgur link

Hi,

For understanding facial features (with neutral expressions), I can’t recommend enough Marco Bucci’s class named “Understanding And Painting The Head” on Proko’s site. Bucci bases this course on the Asaro head, a more detailed version of the Loomis head with more planes for facial features.

The course also includes a part for rendering the head, which is equally as useful as the part on structure.

You can also practice drawing this head with a 3D model of the Asaro head that can be found on Artstation.

Now, for expressions the one ressource I found the most useful yet is Michael Mattesi’s simplified approach. Here’s one of his livestreams explaining his approach https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7Vk-QCKgeA, and you can also find a quick explanation on that in his anatomy book.

This might be a little bit tricky to understand at first, so I’ll also try to explain how I use this on a reference picture : https://imgur.com/a/KqEZ6lZ

Basically, expressions are done by muscles on the face, which means when drawing expressions, gesture is key.

But before thinking of gestures, you also have to consider the construction of the head to make it believable, so you have to put down landmarks. These landmarks do not change locations no matter what expression is being made.

I found that I like to take the eye line (not the brow ridge because its structure may not be very clear depending on the expression), the bottom and tip of the nose, the zygomatic bone, the corner of the jaw and then the bottom of the jaw (I pay attention if the mouth is open or not).

Once we have established that, we move on to gesture.

There are 2 main gesture areas on the face, the eye sockets and the mouth area. You can see them as an eye mask and a mouth mask. Like here from the anatomy book : https://imgur.com/a/BEY9qAL

Gesture creates rhythm, which pushes or stretches the flesh of the face.

Notice how the mouth mask can change the nose shape or push the cheeks to the outside, or how the eye mask can make folds between the eyes, on the side, on the forehead etc...

I can’t list you all the possible rhythms that expressions produce because they are gesture based, but like everything that has gestures, the most efficient way to learn to draw expressions is to practice them and study many refs.

Also I'd say don't forget take a look at the muscle anatomy of the head in order to fully understand the physicality of face expressions (something I haven't even started doing yet but is on my list of things to learn).

I hope this helped!

• Meijiisconfused edited this post on August 21, 2023 6:16pm. Reason: spelling
• Meijiisconfused edited this post on August 21, 2023 7:22pm.